UPDATE – Xbox 360 Spring Update “Reference Levels” explained.
Received an updated reply from Microsoft that further clarifies the reference levels enhancement included in the Spring Update. The reply is from Microsoft’s John Rodman, Senior Product Manager, Xbox Global Platform (followed by the original post):
Q: Any chance one of your tech contacts could explain in layman’s terms exactly what VGA level referencing is and how it affects 360 users who connect with VGA?
A: We added a new feature to the 2007 Xbox System Update which is actually fairly common among consumer electronics devices. You may know it by a variety of names; Reference Levels, Output levels, Black Levels, Blacker than black, Enhanced Blacks, Setup, PLUGE -all of this is talking about roughly the same functionality. In Xbox 360 we call it
“Reference Levels” for those using HDMI or VGA cables and “Black Levels” for Component or Standard cables.At a very high level, this feature is here to accommodate the different methods that TVs use to receive a video signal. More specifically it addresses the different ways that “black” and “white” can be represented in that video signal. If you want to dig a little deeper, the easiest way to think about this is to imagine a scale from 0 to 100. 0 is the dark end and 100 is the light end of the scale.
Because of the multiple “standards” put out by the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) and the Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA) there is some confusion around what the term “Black” actually means. Some TVs expect black to be 0 while others expect it to be at 7. So, if the Xbox 360 outputs 7.5 as “Black” and it is connected to a TV that expects “Black” to be 0, it will result in a washed out colors. Conversely, if the Xbox 360 outputs 0 as black and the TV expects to get 7.5, it will end up with a very dark picture.
If video from your Xbox 360 looks too bright or too dark, you should try each of the settings and see what works best for your particular TV. If you are happy with you’re the video from your Xbox 360, then don’t bother changing it.
(Original post, April 29, 2007):
Got my Xbox 360 Elite this morning. I went to Walmart first, found a woman in the electronics section, and asked where are the 360 Elites. She looked at the flyer in her hand and said “They ain’t out yet.” I said they’re shipping today, and asked if she’d check the computer for me, to see if they’re in back. “They ain’t here, I tol’ you – some people axed the same thing yesterday, we ain’t got none.” I said okay, told her to have a nice day, and she said the same in return.
I figured I’d go to Circuit City or Best Buy and wait till they open at 10. On the way there I noticed Target was already open, and on a whim went in to ask if they had the 360 Elite. The nice young guy in the games section said he thought so, he’d go check. He came out with four 360 Elites, selling one to me, and two to another guy who showed up.
I opted for the 3-year warranty for $29.99, bringing my total receipt to $544.62.
At home, I unpacked the 360 Elite and was bummed to find that the rumored transfer cable/kit was not included. I did a search to find out what was up, and learned that even if it was included, using the transfer cable would wipe out whatever new stuff was on the 360 Elite’s drive – not that any of it is very interesting. (A downloadable coupon in the Xbox.com support section entitles 360 Elite owners to a free transfer cable kit.)
I decided to transfer my stuff using the 64 MB memory card I had on hand. One look at the size of some of my saved stuff – like more than 1 GB for Oblivion alone – gave me pause. The I realized that for that game, and most others, I needed to transfer only the actual save game files, which were rather smallish; the rest, such as the 1+ GB Shivering Isles expansion pack I bought a few weeks ago, I could re-download once I was all set up. I also transferred over Arcade games like Uno, Wik, Worms and some others. The back and forth process from 360 to 360 Elite took about 45 minutes.
Now, for my most burning question: Would the HDMI connection be noticeably better than the VGA connection I was already using?
In a word: No.
An email to my Xbox press contact, asking for clarification, received this reply:
As you mention, the console can output 1080p resolution video over both VGA and HDMI. There may be very, very subtle differences depending on a consumer’s display, but we wouldn’t expect many people to notice.
There will be a difference between HD DVD video played over component and that played over HDMI. The content protection policies of HD DVD allow a maximum output of 1080i over component, so if you have HDMI (or VGA for that matter) you will get the full 1080p resolution.
In the end, by supporting HDMI we are giving our customers who have HD displays another option in the case their display doesn’t support VGA, plus they get the benefit of audio and video over a single cable.
In fact, others have reported that the HDMI isn’t noticeably better than the component video connection, either. On that, I disagree – switching from component to either HDMI or VGA is considerably different, and I notice a dramatic improvement with the Xbox 360 dashboard, in games, and when watching DVD movies.
My second biggest curiosity was noise, and whether the 360 Elite would be quieter than my original 360.
In a word: Yes.
When the DVD drive isn’t spinning, the 360 Elite is quieter than my original Xbox 360. When playing a game it is also quieter. Others have reported the drive isn’t actually quieter, just different in tone. That may be the impression for those who are comparing the old and the new in a large office environment, but in my bedroom, the new is quieter than the old. Perhaps that’s because my original Xbox 360 was the earliest of early units – shipped to me a few days before the 360 was released to the public. It’s that “old.”
But is it whisper-quiet? Nope. It’s still a pretty noisy product.
Bottom line: If you’re HDTV or monitor has an available VGA port, use it (by purchasing the optional VGA cable) with your existing Xbox 360 and enjoy video as good-looking as the 360 Elite’s. If my HDTV had only HDMI and component connection, I would definitely buy the 360 Elite for the sharper picture it delivers when connected that way. As for the hard disk, I had at least 8 GBs available on my old 360 and I don’t see filling this one up fast. My media lives on my MacBook (which I can tap into via the 360 with the add-on program 360Connect), and as far as downloading movies, which I do quite often (last night I watched The Parallax View, a 70s conspiracy theory film starring Warren Beatty that I highly recommend), I watch them then delete them, since they’re only viewable for 24 hours once you start watching. Still, others may want a bigger hard disk for their stuff, and the 360 Elite satisfies on that front (albeit at a pretty high price when compared to the GB-per-buck ratio found on PC add-on drives).
Hi, Vicky. The biggest difference is the “Falcon” chipset in newer model Xbox 360s. There are a number of sites that explain how to find out if the Xbox you’re buying has Falcon chips in it; the Falcon chipset and overall 360 run cooler and are reportedly less likely to suffer from the dreaded RROD – red ring of death – that plagued early model 360s. I believe the Halo 3 Xbox 360s are Falcon chipset, and a guy at EB Games said the new Arcade edition is Falcon, so it’s only a matter of time before all 360s use the Falcon chipset. Search on how to find out if your Xbox 360 has Falcon and you’ll find additional help. Happy upcoming Holidays! Joe
Hey, it was nice to finally get an answer to the hdmi vs vga question. Thanks for not beating around the bush. After reading all this, I got vga and compared to hdmi and component. I have a samsung LNS4096D. After comparing the 3 connections, VGA looked better than component, and equal to hdmi in gaming. HOWEVER, when putting planet earth in HD on, it sitll looked as sharp as HDMI and sharper than component, but the black scenes in the film looked “bleedy” when compared to component or HDMI. What I mean by bleedy is that the blacks were not AS consistent as HDMI or component, and they weren’t as black. Nothing major, but that’s the only difference I noticed, in everything else, the VGA made colors pop much more than on HDMI, and had deeper blacks in still frames. Such as when I’m viewing pictures.
I am having the same problem as Wood Splitter (42) When I am using the Elite HDMI on my 40″ 720 Samsung LCD, it leaves black shadows on screen while in dark scenes. Playing the demo for bioshock was horrible. Some one suggested I had a cheap HDMI cable, but thats not the case at all. It works just fine on my smaller Samsung hd. No shadows at all.
This is probably an obvious question but do you know if the new update supports 1680×1050.
I was wondering if you can take the xbox 360 elite and hook it up to the dvi side of your computer and still get windows to work as well. for when i take off my dvi cable from my computer it does not show windows, all i get is a balnk screen black on the monitor and the green light goes red.
I’ve used both PS3 and Xbox 360 on DVI ports on Westinghouse 37″ HDTV. I used an HDMI/DVI cable, with HDMI plugging into the 360 or PS3, and the DVI into the TV. The tricky thing, on my set anyway, is that one DVI works fine with the PS3 at 1080p, the other does not. I recall reading something about two different kinds of DVI on my set, so I’m not sure about yours. You could simply try it using the same kind of cable, or get an HDMI to DVI adapter if you don’t have said cable. Good luck!
Hi all,
i have a 50″ Samsung DLP but with only VGA and DVI in and i got an issue with my 360 where its connected through an HDMI cable through a DVI adapter. as im trying to watching a dvd through the HDMI/DVI cables, i get a HDCP bubble. i didn’t have this problem when i used Microsofts HDMI cable through a DVI adapter. is there anyway around this issue? my only other options are to either go with a VGA or the HDMI kit from MS.
*update* bought the MS HDMI (again) cable but i’m still having the same issue. could it be the DVI adapter? the first adapter that i bought (then returned too much $$$) was a Monster brand along with the MS cable. Now i’m using the on that i bought from Monoprice.com. and even after using both HDMI from MS and from Monprice its still giving me the HDCP code. any clue why i’m getting this?
My question would relate to the VGA cable. I havent bought one yet, but am going to soon. Would there be a difference in buying the Target brand vs. the Microsoft version? Other than the $25 savings?
Honestly I can’t imagine there would be a difference in video quality, and what with Target’s liberal return policy, you could always get your money back if you’re not satisfied. Thanks for taking the time to visit the site and comment,
Joe
i have a question about hdmi-dvi hookup.i have a tatung p42hsmt which is dvi-hdcp.i get sound through my stereo through an optical cable and when i put in a game it plays just fine,actually its awesome.but my problem is when i put in a dvd all i get is the 360 logo on my display.the movie is playing but no picture just the logo,so is it something i need to change in the video settings on my xbox?
That’s weird, I don’t have an answer right off the bat but I’m hoping other readers will step in to reply. Do you know the max resolution of your HDTV? I’d check that first, then match it with the resolution on the Xbox 360. I believe it is possible to up your Xbox 360 setting to higher HDTV resolution even if your TV isn’t that, and it down converts, but a DVD might not play nice with such a setting. Check your HDTV and find out what the exact max resolution is, and if it’s 720p set your Xbox 360 to that, then try the DVD. Curious to hear how you make out. Joe
I thought that 1080p meant that you have 1080 vertical lines, so on a 24″ monitor, 1080p fill the entire screen at its native resolution of 1920×1080. Since the xbox can only output up to 1366 x 768 doesn’t that mean it’s closer to 720p than 1080p?
When connecting the xbox 360 to a 24″ monitor with hdmi (like the dell 2408), is the resolution 1920×1080?
Thanks in advance! I’m considering buying a 360 and connecting it to a 24″ monitor, but the ones with hdmi are still really expensive. So, I’m wondering if there’s a resolution difference between hdmi and vga.
ok i found something new it might help,when i go to xbox live and try to watch vids from ther it says “unable to secure hdcp”.i am wondering if the hdmi-dvi cable isnt supported.i read that the xbox hdmi output is i think a 1.3 and this cable i bought might nnot be what the xbox needs.
Hi there. On a story deadline so I’m going to point you to the excellent Wikipedia explanation on this one. Best, Joe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p
Aah thanks for the link Joe. So my reading of the wiki article is that most games only output at 720p anyway, in which case the VGA cable would be outputting the max resolution of the game.
Do I understand this correctly?
Thanks,
Eric
Guys relax the VGA and HDMI are the same
infact the VGA can handle more than the HDMI
although both of these have not yet reached their limits
which will be times 2 what we have now!
thats 2160p
…maybe even better
but the question is ‘Will it matter?’
our eyes cant tell between 1080 and 2160
unless u have your nose mushed up against your television set
Email me!
Hi,
I am using original Xbox 360 and connected it to my Benq 24″ monitor using a Monster VGA cable and the pictures are beautiful and crystal clear. In the Display setup, i chose 1920 x 1080.
The option below the screen resolution is greyed out and i cannot choose 720p, 1080i, 1080p, as it say’s i need a HD Av cable. Is this normal?
Since i am using 1920 x 1080 resolution, is this the same as using 1080p?
Does anyone else have this problem where that section is greyed out?
Ok…here is the deal. I have a DLP 67″ Samsung (HLR6768WX) TV. I purchased a 360 Premium with the HDMI output about 7 months ago. I was frustrated to find out that my TV was not a true 1080p capable via the HDMI inputs(Even though it has 1080p labeled on frame of the TV itself). I did find though I could achieve a 1080p resolution via the VGA input(1920×1080 @ 60hz). Color looks better with VGA then compared to HDMI, the color with HDMI seems to be grayed out almost and I also noticed with COD4 for example the gun in hand seems to have less detail as well. The VGA however appears to have the colors bleeding into another, it is not as sharp. I did mess with some of the setting with the TV on the pc mode, but nothing seemed to improve the color bleeding. Has anyone seen this before? I don’t think the XBOX is the problem, I believe the inputs on my TV that are source of the problem. I wanted to see if anyone had come across this problem and had a solution to correct the color bleeding.
Hello G I have the Samsung 72″ HL-T7288W There is no reason for you tv not to produce 1080p through you HDMI cable espacially if it can be done through your vga, not to mention if it says 1080p on you tv. Heres some reviews from people that have the same tv as you claming that they are getting 1080p thourgh HDMI
http://www.pcworld.com/shopping/reviews/prtprdid,9936019sortby,retailer/reviews.html
Have you checked your specs on the outputs of your TV. I’ve tried both cables on my TV and found no visible difference except that HDMI has a more accurate colour reproduction.
finally!!!! http://www.madcatz.com/Default.asp?Page=411
Bro, thanks a bunch for writing this up. I’ve got a 720P projector that I’ve been using with the VGA connection for some time now and it’s always looked great, but I’ve been tempted lately to get a newer 360 with HDMI because the projector also has a HDMI input.
After reading this I’m not going to do it since you say it doesn’t look noticeably better. You saved me a bunch of $.
Also, thanks for the heads-up on 360Connect and The Parallax View. You’re not the first to recommend it and I’ll get it from Netflix ASAP.
Thanks again!
please help, why my samsung lcd 37a550 use hdmi cable on xbox 360 falcon 60gb and on screen says “Mode Not Supported”. No sound, no picture, thanks for the help.
I have the same issue with an older Toshiba HDTV – I plug in via HDMI and no luck, it can’t handle the signal for some reason. So I use the VGA cable to connect that way instead. Joe
Thank you so much, you’r site was very usefull to me at buying both consoles, same me time, thanks again.
I agree, on my tv set, vga looks better than component, for people that disagree, i think there tv sets just dont handle vga correctly
I HAVE A SAMSUNG 50” PLASMA AND I HAVE AN ELITE AND IVE USED HDMI FOR A WHILE I COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE FROM COMPONENT BUT NOT WHAT I WANTED FROM HDMI I HAVE A BLUERAY AND IT LOOKED MUCH BETTER THAN THE XBOX THE XBOX LOOKED FOGY.I WENT TO BEST BUY AND THEY HAD A VGA ON CLEARANCE SO I GOT IT JUST TO SEE AND ON A SCALE TO 1-10 I GIVE VGA A 10 IT LOOKED LIKE LIKE 1080P SHOULD THEN I THOUGHT MAYBE ITS JUST THIS TV AND I HOOKED IT UP TO MY HP LCD 22” AND THERE WASNT AS MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE AS ON MY PLASMA BUT STILL I WENT BACK AND FORTH AND THE VGA JUST LOOKS BETTER IF YOU WANT A SIMPLE HOOKUP WITH LESS CORDS USE HDMI BUT FOR THE PICTURE QUALITY USE VGA NOW THIS IS MY EXPERENCE YOURS MAY BE DIFFERENT. THE GAME I TESTED IT ON IS CALL OF DUTY WORLD AT WAR SORRY NOT A GOOD SPELLER!!! MY ? IS WHY DOES EVERYONE SAY HDMI IS THE WAY TO GO?
I Have a xbox 360 elite and was, until now, connecting to my lcd Samsung monitor with a xbox 360 vga cable. Just recently I found I had a Hdmi-Dvi cable in my basement and tried connecting to my monitor that way. I changed the resolution on my xbox 360 to fit the monitors recommended resolution and it seems to work fine, but I now have 2 small black bars above and below the screen. My question is if the hdmi-dvi cable does indeed provide better resolution than the xbox 360 vga cable.
Hi, i play my xbox 360 through VGA to my HD ECP4500 crt projector. The picture is excellent. One of the great things about CRT technology is that there is no native resolution. I can run all resolutions but due to bandwidth 1280×1024 is the max resolved resolution. I play 720p or 1440×900 alot and its great. I play at 140 inches and image focus is really sharp particularly with electrostatic unit. !5000:1 contrast with black blacks meaning absolutely no light =0. Very bright picture just not alot of ansi or reflected light. you can see it easily a bit like a laser.
Whites are white but i have some small wear from previous owner but can barely be seen on screen on fullwhite. in game its invisible.
the difference between the different cable connections is simple. The lowest quality is composite because all video components are combined into one signal and causes alot of inteference. Much like someone using the same remote as ur RC car.
Svideo is next seperating video signal into 4 parts. meaning less interence. Component is each signal of RGB has its own cable with sync on green so there is small interference. Vga seperates mostly into 15 pins or less running all components mostly in different pins leading no or very little interence. DVI and HDMI are identical. They have most pins and highest cable quality but hdmi has sound aswell which is why its known as best option.
as u go up in the cable ranks the signal is cleaner so better picture.
I have a vga transcoder and my wii looks pretty bad from component. colour levels are better than composite but a bit blury. Vga is what i recommend for most.
Hi,
I noticed most of the posts were related to super-sized screens. However, I’m going to university and can’t exactly take a 40″ with me.
I’m looking at an Acer H233Hbmid 23″ LCD Monitor for $240. It has both VGA and HDMI ports. The thing is that the monitor comes with an HDMI cable. For a small computer monitor, is VGA or HDMI better. If VGA is better, is it worth $20 for the VGA-Xbox360 cable?
Thanks in advance.
Definitely go with the HDMI, save some money and the output is fine, you’ll be pleased. Good deal for $240 and cable included. Joe
Hi guys after reading this I decided to comment on my experience with Xbox HDMI and VGA. I used VGA for a while as I found the picture quality on my old Sony 40” better running at 1360×768 than on the component 720p. I know the VGA runs a higher res etc. So when I recently brought a Sony 46”w5500 and decided to give my Xbox Elite a go with the HDMI after testing I found that the quality was amazing but during some games e.g. Rockband + Rainbow 6 2 I got some lag/stuttering when lots of things was going on I even did the calibration for Rockband manually and Automatically with the wireless guitar. Also I tried the different motion flow settings on my Sony 100Hz with no luck. So I decided to go back to my VGA to see if it occurs so I reinstalled the VGA cable and wacked it on 1920×1080 and again it looked outstanding but the games ran perfect with no stuttering im not sure why this happened. So for my set-up old and new I have found VGA being the best option as it makes the games and screen quality much better. Also I have PS3 plugged into the component as I find it sharper than using the HDMI for it and blue ray films seem to be better too. From my pc I go from DVI-D to HDMI and that seems to work perfect from my Geforce 8800GT at 1920×1080. In regards to cable manufactures I have always found from the day I started to game that original cables offer the best performance for video quality and I would recommend paying the difference to buy them.
Hey guys, I am really excited about finally having some spare cash to buy an Xbox 360 as well as a tv/monitor. I’ve been on the internet searching for awhile now for some helpful tips on what 360 to buy(arcade/elite) and what tv/monitor to buy. Can anyone help out? Thanks in advance and Happy Holidays :)